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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: KOT Cards are damaged by dicerolls

August 19, 2013, 12:15 pm
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by Stile2112

I just bought a gun.... and every time I put the gun up to my head and pull the trigger, the gun shoots me in the head. I find this unacceptable.

How do I keep the gun from shooting me in the head?? :what:
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Thread: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 5:17 pm
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by Cyranix

I think I know the answer to this, but I just finished a game where there were differences of opinion...

Scenario: There are 6 players, A through F.
* Player A has Jets and is in Tokyo
* Player B has Fire Breathing and is outside Tokyo
* Player C is in Tokyo
* everyone else is irrelevant

The exact wording on the cards:
* Jets: You suffer no damage when yielding Tokyo.
* Fire Breathing: Your neighbors take 1 extra damage when you deal damage.

On Player B's turn, he rolls a claw. Player A yields Tokyo with Jets. Does he take damage from Fire Breathing?

One reading is that the bonus damage from Fire Breathing is lumped together with the claw damage for Players A and C, so that Jets causes Player A to take no damage.

The other reading is that Fire Breathing counts as a separate source of damage. Player A doesn't suffer the damage from the rolled claw when yielding Tokyo, but because Fire Breathing triggers on Player C, Player A takes 1 point of damage.

What's the verdict? Does the "extra" damage of Fire Breathing get absorbed by Jets, or does it give Player A one point (0 from Jets + 1 extra) of damage?
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 5:26 pm
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by Speedbump858

My interpretation is that no damage is NO Damage. So if he had 1 claw + 18 bonus damage, that would still mean you take 0 damage for yielding Tokyo.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Suprised that people are not making there own monsters

August 19, 2013, 6:29 pm
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by Dave Chua

I guess a plant-monster giant swamp thing beastie would be cool..
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 6:44 pm
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by zenpunk

Agree. No damage.

Even if you interpret the bonus damage as happening after you use Jets... well, you can't damage people outside of Tokyo if you are also outside of Tokyo. So, either way... no damage.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 6:53 pm
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by Scorpion0x17

The way I read them, yes, Player A takes 1 damage from Fire Breathing.

That Player A is outside of Tokyo when they yield is irrelevant - Fire Breathing deals damage to your neighbours whether or not they are in Tokyo and whether or not they are the ones you're dealing the initial damage to.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 7:12 pm
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by Billgrant

I'm in agreement with Scott.

As I understand it the benefit of Jets is not taking that final damage when leaving Tokyo. So you can overstay your welcome and still survive the ordeal.

Since the Fire Breathing dealt damage to someone else in Tokyo (Player C) both neighbors, whoever they are, take the one extra damage. That one of the neighbors happens to be yielding Tokyo is irrelevant.

The last piece is that had there only been one player in Tokyo and they yielded Tokyo using Jets then the Fire Breathing would not deal any effects. This is because the card says it deals extra damage when dealing damage. Since the Jets counter the damage the player essentially didn't deal damage and can't get the extra effect.

I'm still curious what the official ruling is but based on how I understand the rules this is how I would call it.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 7:18 pm
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by zenpunk

it deals extra damage to your neighbors... meaning, I think, you do an additional point of damage to monsters that you would normally damage.

It doesn't damage your neighbors (the people immediately to your left and right) that are inside Tokyo with you, or outside of Tokyo with you. Right? Do you play that people outside of Tokyo damage their neighbors even if their neighbors aren't in Tokyo?
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 7:28 pm
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by Billgrant

zenpunk wrote:

it deals extra damage to your neighbors... meaning, I think, you do an additional point of damage to monsters that you would normally damage.

It doesn't damage your neighbors (the people immediately to your left and right) that are inside Tokyo with you, or outside of Tokyo with you. Right? Do you play that people outside of Tokyo damage their neighbors even if their neighbors aren't in Tokyo?

Yes.

King of Tokyo Rulebook wrote:


Fire breathing
Your neighbors are the player to your left, and the player to your right. They take the damage even if they were not the targets of your attack, but this additional damage is not considered an attack.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 7:32 pm
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by mexilplif

Cyranix wrote:


Scenario: There are 6 players, A through F.
* Player A has Jets and is in Tokyo
* Player B has Fire Breathing and is outside Tokyo
* Player C is in Tokyo
* everyone else is irrelevant

The exact wording on the cards:
* Jets: You suffer no damage when yielding Tokyo.
* Fire Breathing: Your neighbors take 1 extra damage when you deal damage.


Maybe i am reading this wrong or the verbiage from the cards is not complete, but i will give it a try.

Players D,E,F take the damage. It states your neighbors take damage, meaning the ones next to the fire breather. Player C is hit by fire, so the players next to player A(not in the city) take the damage.

edit... just a little slow typing
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 7:54 pm
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by zenpunk

King of Tokyo Rulebook wrote:


Fire breathing
Your neighbors are the player to your left, and the player to your right. They take the damage even if they were not the targets of your attack, but this additional damage is not considered an attack.

Ah, I see. I don't think I've opened the rule book since the day I got the game, but if it says that, then I change my answer.

Damage.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 8:51 pm
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by moosemcd

According to the Unofficial FAQ based on the French Edition
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/67372/unofficial-faq-and-c...

Fire Breathing: The neighboring monsters are those of the player to you left and the payer to your right. They only suffer this damage when you attack them.


You are not able to attack Player A (due to the jets) therefore fire breathing does no damage to them.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 9:11 pm
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by mexilplif

Did we forget about player C in Tokyo Bay. Tokyo Bay is the same as Tokyo. per the rules" Tokyo Bay grants the same advantages and disadvantages as Tokyo City"
So the attack with the Paw is on both players players A and C.
Player A takes no damage
Player C takes damage(assuming no damage reduction from cards)
Now Fire Breathing since damage was dealt
Players to the left and right of Player B take one point
So now the real question is if player A is next to player B would they take damage. I see it as yes since fire Breathing is not an Attack but just collateral damage.(per the rules).

Sorry this changes my answer above as i now have rules in front of me.


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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 9:46 pm
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by moosemcd

mexilplif wrote:

Did we forget about player C in Tokyo Bay. Tokyo Bay is the same as Tokyo. per the rules" Tokyo Bay grants the same advantages and disadvantages as Tokyo City"
So the attack with the Paw is on both players players A and C.
Player A takes no damage
Player C takes damage(assuming no damage reduction from cards)
Now Fire Breathing since damage was dealt
Players to the left and right of Player B take one point
So now the real question is if player A is next to player B would they take damage. I see it as yes since fire Breathing is not an Attack but just collateral damage.(per the rules).

Sorry this changes my answer above as i now have rules in front of me.




But wouldn't Player A still be in the process of yielding Tokyo, which would make Jets cancel the fire breathing damage as well? If Player A is no longer 'yielding' then they have 'yielded', which would mean they are outside of Tokyo and not eligible to be attacked.

This raises a further question. If Player A has already yielded when Fire Breathing takes place, then that would mean Player B has taken Player A's place in Tokyo when fire breathing occurs. In this case Player A WOULD take the damage, but Player C would not. The fact that this seems absurd leads me to think my first argument is correct. The fire breathing action takes place while Player A is still yielding Tokyo, thus Player A takes no damage.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 10:00 pm
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by mexilplif

Ok, maybe i am not seeing this right.
Player A yields also takes no damage, but play C still takes damage. so the fire breathing card is activated.
Now the fire breathing card does not care if you are in Tokyo, Tokyo bay, or in a bubble, but states per the rules the players to the right and left of the player B take damage. since we do not know who sits next to player B per the first post i just made an assumption players sat in alphabetical order. A, B, C, D, E, F. This means the fire damage is done to players A and C. Again we all know what happens when we assume....
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: FAQ (in english) (answered by Gabriel Iello in a french forum)

August 19, 2013, 10:23 pm
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by MrBallast

Was looking for someone who could offer a bit of clarity on one line in this FAQ: "Mimic + Freeze time: 111 gives 2 extra turns (to a theoretical 31 total turns!)". I've looked over the cards a couple of times and not seeing how 31 turns is possible exactly. On the first roll, you could get 111 twice for a total of 4 extra turns. After that, you lose one dice each turn and could only get 111 once from there on(allowing for 2 extra turns). Could someone break this down very specifically and detail how 31 turns would be earned? Thanks in advance for any help.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 19, 2013, 10:54 pm
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by moosemcd

mexilplif wrote:

Ok, maybe i am not seeing this right.
Player A yields also takes no damage, but play C still takes damage. so the fire breathing card is activated.
Now the fire breathing card does not care if you are in Tokyo, Tokyo bay, or in a bubble, but states per the rules the players to the right and left of the player B take damage. since we do not know who sits next to player B per the first post i just made an assumption players sat in alphabetical order. A, B, C, D, E, F. This means the fire damage is done to players A and C. Again we all know what happens when we assume....


Some details were lost in the translation from the French to the English editions. Gabriel de Iello confirmed in the french forum that fire breathing only works if your target is also your neighbor.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/8136031#8136031

Gabriel de Iello wrote:

Fire breathing: your neighbours are the one around the table, but they must be a legal target of your attack to suffer the extra damage (ie they suffer +1 damage if they have been attacked and they are your neighbour).
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: FAQ (in english) (answered by Gabriel Iello in a french forum)

August 20, 2013, 1:36 am
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 20, 2013, 2:59 am
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by Scorpion0x17

moosemcd wrote:

mexilplif wrote:

Ok, maybe i am not seeing this right.
Player A yields also takes no damage, but play C still takes damage. so the fire breathing card is activated.
Now the fire breathing card does not care if you are in Tokyo, Tokyo bay, or in a bubble, but states per the rules the players to the right and left of the player B take damage. since we do not know who sits next to player B per the first post i just made an assumption players sat in alphabetical order. A, B, C, D, E, F. This means the fire damage is done to players A and C. Again we all know what happens when we assume....


Some details were lost in the translation from the French to the English editions. Gabriel de Iello confirmed in the french forum that fire breathing only works if your target is also your neighbor.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/8136031#8136031

Gabriel de Iello wrote:

Fire breathing: your neighbours are the one around the table, but they must be a legal target of your attack to suffer the extra damage (ie they suffer +1 damage if they have been attacked and they are your neighbour).


That actually doesn't help clear this up.

If A and C are both neighbours of B, and in Tokyo/Tokyo Bay, then they are both legitimate targets when the initial damage is dealt.

So the question still remains: Does Jets allow player A to ignore both the initial damage and the additional damage from Fire Breathing?
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Jets + Fire Breath with two players in Tokyo

August 20, 2013, 3:11 am
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by jonahmaul

The rules state that a Monster is considered attacking when it has at least one Claw, otherwise it is not attacking. This means that a card which increases the damage of an attack will not bring damage from zero to one if you don't have a Claw' (original emphasis). As Fire Breath only deals damage when you attack I would say it was an additional damage which is all resolved at the same time so Jets would mean that you do avoid damage. The confusion for me though is that because Fire Breathing says it is not an attack do you resolve the attack then Fire Breathing in which case the player would take damage after using Jets or is all damage resolved at the same time?
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