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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...

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by thedacker

Sphere wrote:

thedacker wrote:

aznxturtlez wrote:

I play a 3 player game as well. Usually it ends up with us using around 5-6/66 cards.


This is exactly what frustrated me about the base rules. I want more cards in play than that for sure. Seeing similar cards from game to game is not a problem for me because it's the combination of the cards and order of their appearance that makes each game infinitely varied.

I think an average of 2-3 cards per player sounds about right for where we get with the standard rules. It's not unusual to see one player get 4-5 cards, but I think having everybody get that many on a regular basis would throw the game out of whack just as badly as the 2 VP per turn in Tokyo that the O.P. was using.


I completely agree. The variant doesn't allow players to get have more than 3 KEEP cards at once.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...

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by Sphere

thedacker wrote:

I completely agree. The variant doesn't allow players to get have more than 3 KEEP cards at once.

I'm not so sure we agree. :)

I've seen players with more than 3 KEEP cards in play while using the standard rules. If you double the purchasing power of the players, they'll be able to use those resources to cherry-pick what they want even if you do put limits on how many they can hold simultaneously. I'm more interested in working with what's available. That makes great combos rare, and memorable.

[edit] I see you added this while I was typing:

thedacker wrote:

In the end, I think it just comes down to preference. Do you want more cards coming and going than the standard rules allow? I do. So I adjust the rules. And I like the game better.

If you like the amount of cards brought into the game with the standard rules, cool. :D

Yup, that's a good summation.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...

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by Fwing

I find it depends on how which cards are out and how many energy you roll.

IMO only very few cards are worth actively chasing power but there are plenty that are good enough for when you've accumulated a few through change.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Shrink Ray hit - give both hit and token?

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by DukeDrizzt

theruler wrote:

If you inflict him 3 damages, he must lower his life by three points and take one "shrinked" marker.


Is this the case? I just got this today and when playing this we assumed it was for every pt of damage (which made it crazy buff). Is there a FAQ for this game? Eventhough the rules are small and it's fairly easy to understand there are a few things that could use some clarification.

nvmd, found it

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by DukeDrizzt

Disgustipater wrote:

Ardamaeus wrote:

Wait, when you attack, do you have to take Tokyo? Or only have to take it if Tokyo is empty?

If you attack, and the monster in Tokyo yields, you must take Tokyo. If they do not yield, you do not take Tokyo. If it is empty, you must enter Tokyo.


While i can see this as being the case, the only problem i have is with the wording on this. The rules state if u are attacked while in tokyo and u dont want to be there anymore (and who can blame u - it can be rough!) u can yeld to the monster that attacked. U still take the damage however.

The very next paragraph says
If u are eliminated while in tokyo, the monster who has eliminated u automatically takes control of tokyo.

Now, here are the issues I have where it can be a little confusing. After the part about yielding it doesn't say the attacking monster takes the spot in tokyo. The next paragraph only mentions is when talking about elimination. To me elimination means death, out of the game. Not to mention that it was a new paragraph meaning a new thought. If it were to be meant as a continuation of the preceding thought it wouldn't have been broken up into a new paragraph. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but the idea remains the same. Eliminated is the word that makes me think that the attacking monster doesn't have to go into tokyo unless he killed it. Never forget that in the advanced rules for 5-6 players, when talking about elimination it's talking about a monster actually leaving the game therefore the implication is death. And I cant find anywhere in the rules that says Tokyo has to always be occupied.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by Disgustipater

DukeDrizzt wrote:

The rules state, If you are attacked while in Tokyo and you don't want to be there anymore (and who can blame you - it can be rough!) You can yield to the monster that attacked. You still take the damage however.

It would be helpful if you typed like an adult. Also, as you so ineloquently pointed out, the rules state you yield to the monster that attacked you.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by DukeDrizzt

It's funny u say that cuz i typed it the way it was spelled in the rulebook and u caught it(good for u, smartass). And all yielding means is u give up, u let the other person win. I know the ruling for this, I'm just letting ppl know where some confusion can be.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by Khedron

DukeDrizzt wrote:

It's funny u say that cuz i typed it the way it was spelled in the rulebook and u caught it(good for u, smartass). And all yielding means is u give up, u let the other person win. I know the ruling for this, I'm just letting ppl know where some confusion can be.


I just double-checked the rulebook, and the "word" "u" doesn't appear anywhere in that section.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...

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by MrMT

Sphere wrote:

MrMT wrote:

Assuming I understand Tokyo correctly (that the incumbent gets 2 points on every players' turn, not just their own) I found the game went by too quick for the cards to become much of an issue.

There's your problem - you only get 2 points when you're in Tokyo at the start of your own turn (sounds like you suspected that you might have that wrong). Not only are you shortening the game drastically with all the extra points, but I'd think players would all be forced into trying to kill whoever is there, to the point that they'd be re-rolling power dice to get attacks.

Played the right way, the game is still fairly quick, and the cards become very important. (I see no need for variants - the game plays great with the rules as written).


Well, this certainly changes things for me.

I had assumed that the every turn 2vp rule because a) it gives you a reason to stay a little longer after your own turn b) the wording says "when starting THE turn in Tokyo you gain 2vp (not when starting YOUR turn) c) I assumed it balanced out the increasing difficulty of staying in Tokyo with more players.

It did make the game go too fast, it felt. Only collecting VPs on your own turn certainly makes cards more useful. But it does make me wonder why anyone would stay in Tokyo an extra turn or two...

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by DukeDrizzt

my god u nerds are retarded. good thing the board police are out in force cuz u can't formulate a proper thought

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by EitherOrlok

DukeDrizzt wrote:

my god u nerds are retarded. good thing the board police are out in force cuz u can't formulate a proper thought


And you can't formulate a proper sentence.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by Octavian

Remember - if you see something you want to react negatively to, flag it and forget it.

Using the [INLINEIMG]http://geekdo-images.com/images/redsquarex.gif[/INLINEIMG] icon serves two functions - first, if enough users flag a post then it will be collapsed from general view. Second, flagging posts helps bring them to the attention of the forum moderators.

Thanks!

New Image for King of Tokyo

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...

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by Webhead123

I haven't read everyone's comments above but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

In my experience, cards can often make the difference between victory and defeat. I've played KoT a couple dozen times now with groups of all sizes and play strategies. On average, players tend to buy 3 to 4 cards each over the course of a game. I've seen games won thanks to the likes of Nova Breath, Carnivore, Alpha Monster, Shrink Ray and others. "Defense" powers, especially those that work in Tokyo, like Rapid Healing, Super Jump, Jets, Wings and Camoflage can give players some serious advantages and are often foolish to pass up. Also factor in the number of games I've seen won by the purchase of a VP card on the final turn and I would dare say the cards play a huge role in how the game plays out.

I've heard the complaints and, for a time, this made me wonder about how impactful the cards really were. More than 25 games has proven to me that the cards are not only one of the most entertaining aspects of the game but also a very significant one. To ignore the cards can often lead to your horrible demise.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Shrink Ray hit - give both hit and token?

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by Webhead123

k_waterman wrote:

With shrink ray, do the "hit" monster get both the token and decreases a heart?


Yes and Poison Spit works the same way. The monster(s) attacked lose 1 Health for each claw result on the dice. Then, all monsters who lost Health gain 1 token.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Heal Before Being Forced Into Tokyo?

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by Webhead123

Samthere wrote:

Here's my interpretation:

You're not allowed to choose the order that you resolve your dice in, because there is no order of dice resolution. Once you've decided to accept a roll, the effects of that roll happen simultaneously. You figure out the effects of the dice in an order, because we're human, and we can't be expected to simultaneously change our health/VPs, take cubes and announce damage dealt, and so all examples in the rules group dice resolution into the various faces. Regardless of that, all the dice resolve at the same moment, instantaneously. Healing happens at the same time that damage is dealt, and yielding happens in response to the dice resolving, before the purchasing phase of the turn begins.


Precisely. During a player's second phase ("Resolve the Dice"), the player notes the final results of the faces of the dice that are showing and resolves them simultaneously. Once the dice have been resolved, if the monster in Tokyo was attacked, they now choose whether or not to yeild Tokyo to the attacker.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Volunteer to leave Tokyo?

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by Webhead123

DukeDrizzt wrote:

Disgustipater wrote:

Ardamaeus wrote:

Wait, when you attack, do you have to take Tokyo? Or only have to take it if Tokyo is empty?

...the only problem i have is with the wording on this. The rules state if u are attacked while in tokyo and u dont want to be there anymore (and who can blame u - it can be rough!) u can yeld to the monster that attacked. U still take the damage however.

The very next paragraph says
If u are eliminated while in tokyo, the monster who has eliminated u automatically takes control of tokyo.


If there was any question about the attacker being forced to take Tokyo, it is supported by further verbiage in the rulebook.

On page 2, under "Advanced Rule" for Tokyo Bay, the first blue text box says the following:

"If the Monster in Tokyo Bay is attacked it can choose to abandon Tokyo Bay (still taking any damage dealt, just like Tokyo City). In this case the Monster that attacked must move in unless it is moving into Tokyo City, in which case Tokyo Bay becomes temporarily unoccupied."

Also, on page 3 in the Glossary under the "Leaving Tokyo/Flee" entry, it says:

"A Monster can leave Tokyo (yield his place) to the Monster who just attacked him. If a card allows a monster to leave Tokyo with no damage from an attack, the attacker still occupies Tokyo."

By using the term "still", the rules are implying that the normal course of action is for the attacker to take posession of Tokyo when the defender flees and that this will happen even if the defender somehow negates the damage.

I hope that helps.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Healing Ray mandatory and for everyone?

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by Webhead123

Samthere wrote:

There is no reason to believe that healing ray applies to everyone. Healing ray allows you to use your heart dice to heal other monsters, not all monsters. So, instead of using your heart to heal yourself, you can give it up to heal a different monster by 1 point.


Yes, I was a bit befuddled because the above comments kept reading to me as suggesting that Healing Ray heals all other monsters at the same time, which it does not. I don't have the card in front of me but I've played with it several times and I recall it effectively saying that you may use the heart results on your dice to heal other monsters (not all other monsters) instead of yourself, on a one-for-one basis, just like normal heart results.

Samthere wrote:

The card says that they must pay you 2E for each damage that you heal. If they are at max health, you didn't heal a damage, the same way that you don't heal damage if you roll hearts for yourself at max health.


Correct. The rules for the heart dice results says:

"Each [heart] allows a Monster to regain one Lost Life [heart].

A Monster can't go above 10 [heart]."

If a Monster has 10 Life, he does not have any "Lost Life" to be regained and thus cannot apply heart results. So, just as you cannot use heart results on yourself beyond 10 Life, you cannot use Shrink Ray to apply hearts beyond 10 for other monsters.

Samthere wrote:

Whether you can use heal ray as the king is less clear, but in my games I would allow it - the rulebook says you can't use heart dice, but the card says you can. Since this is a rules conflict, I go with the golden rule of "specific beats general", and thus the rule written on the card overrides (unless the rulebook specifically overrides the cards). Since this is Richard Garfield, I'd say it's fairly safe to, in general, obey this principal.


Prior to Garfield's response, I had always interpreted the rules as saying that the Monster in Tokyo cannot use heart results at all (effectively treating them like "blanks"). However, his comments seem to clarify the situation properly, offering that they cannot use hearts to "Heal" their Life Points but they can use them for other effects...like Healing Ray.

Healing Ray is a pretty good card...really only useful for preventing other players from stockpiling energy or helping you stockpile yourself. That said, you're trading energy for longevity of your opponents (giving them Life Points) and yourself (spending hearts on other Monsters instead of your own). That said, I consider it far from "broken" and actually one of those cards that is a good "backup plan" but will not win too many games on its own.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: Fire Breathing - How do you play it?

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by Webhead123

I'll admit that I haven't read all comments in this thread. I just wanted to throw in my very quick and simple answer to the question of how Fire Breathing works. It's best to think of Fire Breathing as a two-step process:

If a Monster with Fire Breathing attacks (i.e. resolves 1 or more claw results on the dice), the following steps occur:

1) The Monster deals damage to its normal target(s) equal to the number of claws showing.

2) The attacker's "neighbors" (the players sitting to the left and right) each take 1 point of damage. This is "extra" or in addition to any damage they might otherwise be taking, either because the neighbor was also a target of the attack or because of other effects.

Fire Breathing says "when you deal damage", not "when you deal damage to that neighbor".
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