by copax
I agree with Michael. As soon as you take a hit, you immediately have the choice to give up the city to your attacker.↧
Reply: King of Tokyo:: Variants:: Re: Dice Choice & VP (123) Merging
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Variants:: Re: Dice Choice & VP (123) Merging
by AstroLad
Interesting idea and I'm sure it would be a fun variant. I think the game is fairly well balanced though. For one, you have to remember that it's really a party/diplomacy game more than anything. Your success will almost always hinge on how bad others want to hurt/help you (this is what makes the game so fun to me btw). You say that camping outside Tokyo is a key to victory, but if most are doing that, there's a very good chance the person in Tokyo will run away with it given all the free VPs he'll be getting.↧
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Monster Boards Not Tight
by sixthecat
You might try sliding in a little fold of paper between the wheel and the card to create more friction.↧
Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Monster Boards Not Tight
by Robman
sixthecat wrote:
You might try sliding in a little fold of paper between the wheel and the card to create more friction.
I've thought about that: cut card stock in the shape of a circle half the diameter of the spinner; use a hole punch to place a hole in the center of the circle; make one straight cut from the outer circumference to the hole; and slide between spinner and monster board.
I just have to think about how to keep the card stock from sliding out over time. Maybe just a piece of 1cm Scotch tape.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Variants:: Re: Dice Choice & VP (123) Merging
by Samthere
fanaka66 wrote:
How are you dying without making a decision to stop it? Just leave Tokyo ASAP if you don't want to be there.
Sorry, wrote a lot and it got lost.
The decision isn't necessarily while in Tokyo - the situation I've seen is where a player has spent several consecutive turns rolling for health above all else, and dies either because they're forced into Tokyo from a single claw or just because they're not getting enough hearts. Yes, it's part of the game, but it
The dice pool isn't designed only to fix that issue, but also to try a variant where you get a little more of what you want, which makes it just a little bit more strategic. Simpler solutions for just the first point could be something like: "before you roll your dice when you are not in Tokyo, you can announce that you are recovering." Recovering could either turn VP results into healing (111 heals 1, 222 heals 2, 1111 heals 2, etc) but not trigger effects that trigger from heart dice, or instead it could allow you to heal (again, not triggering heart effects) from claws, but they deal no damage, and if you get any it counts as an attack.
AstroLad wrote:
Interesting idea and I'm sure it would be a fun variant. I think the game is fairly well balanced though. For one, you have to remember that it's really a party/diplomacy game more than anything. Your success will almost always hinge on how bad others want to hurt/help you (this is what makes the game so fun to me btw). You say that camping outside Tokyo is a key to victory, but if most are doing that, there's a very good chance the person in Tokyo will run away with it given all the free VPs he'll be getting.
That's true, but only if everyone is camping. I'm not saying that there aren't counters, or that it's always the best way to win, but just that there isn't usually all that much incentive to stay in Tokyo. It's more "eh, might as well stay, I'll survive" or "I don't want to be in here because I'll die" or "I'm fine, but you're not, so I yield". That last one is probably the biggest issue - several turns in Tokyo should provide something valuable enough to actually make the decision between staying or having another monster die something to think abuot. There's very little "YES YES SMASH TOKYO HAHAHAHAHA I WILL DESTROY TOKYO OR DIE TRYING", simply because Tokyo isn't hugely valuable. Other variants alter Tokyo to give energy, or other things, to make it a bloodier battle, and maybe that's the right thing to do. This change attempts to accomplish it by making Tokyo the primary source of VPs, rather than a pleasant bonus.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Variants:: Re: Dice Choice & VP (123) Merging
by Samthere
Also, as a point, I agree that it's a light game, and that the other players often choose whether you live or die. However, I still expect everyone to play to win, so the only times you'd not want a monster to die is if either someone else will spend some of their turn making the kill, or if they had some ability that could counter someone else who was likely to win. So, in the vast majority of cases, if a monster is near death I would expect the other players to kill them, and I wouldn't blame them at all. That's why I would want for there to be some slightly stronger alternatives that would be worth not killing someone for.↧
Reply: King of Tokyo:: Variants:: Re: TheDacker's Double Dose of Energy Variant
by Samthere
As a quick question, why remove Friend of Children? The effect is less pronounced than in normal games, since it will still only result in a single extra energy cube on a roll.Also, should you increase the cost of Energy Hoarder/Monster Batteries(and possibly the two you remove, instead of removing them)?
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: Variants:: Re: TheDacker's Double Dose of Energy Variant
by thedacker
Samthere wrote:
As a quick question, why remove Friend of Children? The effect is less pronounced than in normal games, since it will still only result in a single extra energy cube on a roll.
I remove Friend of Children because the first time I played with this variant, my nephew grabbed it early and during the rest of the game, he was swimming in energy cubes. With further thought, it was probably just him playing poorly and keeping too many energy results because most of his cubes were wasted in the end--and he didn't win.
Go ahead and put Friend of Children back in if you want. That's the beauty of a variant; you get to decide. :D
Samthere wrote:
Also, should you increase the cost of Energy Hoarder/Monster Batteries(and possibly the two you remove, instead of removing them)?
I haven't run into those cards being a problem yet, so I hadn't thought of it. With Energy Hoarder, I find it's not a big deal because players are usually spending their energy cubes. If a player wants to keep a hold of 6 cubes for an extra 1 VP each turn (or 12 for 2), that still sounds fair to me regardless of the card's initial cost. And with Monster Batteries, that card works so slowly (just two cubes each turn, and you have to commit your own cubes to it initially) that it's not a very great card in a game where every die with an energy result yields you the same amount. I feel its low cost is fitting.
I personally wouldn't change the cost on any cards. I would either just keep them as are, or remove them from play. I wouldn't want to start keeping track of what cards cost what, and heaven forbid the thought of marking up the cards.
But...this is a variant. So you may do whatever you like. If you find something that works well or doesn't work, please post your experience here. Thanks for doing so, Sam!
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Thread: King of Tokyo:: General:: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by MrMT
Played my first few games of this, really enjoyed it.But I was left wondering how much use the cards would get...
Assuming I understand Tokyo correctly (that the incumbent gets 2 points on every players' turn, not just their own) I found the game went by too quick for the cards to become much of an issue.
When someone is in Tokyo, you need to hit them fast, or they win too quickly. Coupled with your own need to heal or get victory points, energy seems to be a distant fourth.
By the time people built the requisite energy for one of the useful powers, the game was already pretty much over.
Have players here found that cards become much of a factor?( I was playing a 3 person game)
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by Nidale
The expansion will try to cover this "issue" by allowing you to use one of your 8 monster-specific cards everytime you roll 3 Heart.↧
Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by Khedron
MrMT wrote:
Assuming I understand Tokyo correctly (that the incumbent gets 2 points on every players' turn, not just their own) I found the game went by too quick for the cards to become much of an issue.
You only gain 2VP for starting your turn in Tokyo.
MrMT wrote:
Have players here found that cards become much of a factor?( I was playing a 3 person game)
I've seen several people on these forums claiming it's difficult to get enough energy to buy cards, but I've never seen that in my games. I usually buy several cards over the course of a game.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by thedacker
Shameless self promotion here, but I recommend a variant created by yours truly:TheDacker's Double Dose of Energy Variant
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by Sphere
MrMT wrote:
Assuming I understand Tokyo correctly (that the incumbent gets 2 points on every players' turn, not just their own) I found the game went by too quick for the cards to become much of an issue.
There's your problem - you only get 2 points when you're in Tokyo at the start of your own turn (sounds like you suspected that you might have that wrong). Not only are you shortening the game drastically with all the extra points, but I'd think players would all be forced into trying to kill whoever is there, to the point that they'd be re-rolling power dice to get attacks.
Played the right way, the game is still fairly quick, and the cards become very important. (I see no need for variants - the game plays great with the rules as written).
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by thedacker
Khedron wrote:
I've seen several people on these forums claiming it's difficult to get enough energy to buy cards, but I've never seen that in my games. I usually buy several cards over the course of a game.
I'll give you a counter opinion that I think the game (as the standard rules would have you play it) punishes anybody who tries to collect cubes. You have to sacrifice too much in precious victory points, health, or attacks that energy is just not worth it. After only a few games, nobody was keeping energy results in my groups.
Those who did focus on energy cubes, never won because they either died or somebody got the VP win. If they did get a nice card, it was usually so late in the game that it made very little difference anyway.
After playing with the variant I recommend above, I find the base rules rather boring.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by Sphere
thedacker wrote:
After only a few games, nobody was keeping energy results in my groups.
I think you should play with other groups if you get the opportunity. I don't doubt that it worked that way for you, but groupthink is self-reinforcing. I'm far from convinced that acquiring energy and buying cards is a losing proposition.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by aznxturtlez
I play a 3 player game as well. Usually it ends up with us using around 5-6/66 cards. I think its good because it keeps the game fresh. You cant be aiming for cards and expect to be ahead.↧
Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by thedacker
Sphere wrote:
thedacker wrote:
After only a few games, nobody was keeping energy results in my groups.
I think you should play with other groups if you get the opportunity. I don't doubt that it worked that way for you, but groupthink is self-reinforcing. I'm far from convinced that acquiring energy and buying cards is a losing proposition.
I tried several times to take the energy-cube route. I really wanted it to be a viable path to victory because my favorite part of the game is the cards and all the great combos they (potentially) create when they get into play. But after several attempts to do so, I realized that I would like the game much more if it was easier to get cards into play.
Turns out I was right. I like the game much more when cubes are easier to collect, making cards easier to get into play for everyone. The combos that come into play (every game) make it incredibly more interesting to me. I'll never go back (barring potential changes made by future expansions and/or promos, etc.).
But that's just me and my preferences. I always favor a game that generates high potential for cool combos. That's why I like it more with the change. It sounds like the OP is having the same kinds of frustrations I was having. That's why I felt my variant might be a good idea for him to try.
EDIT: spelling
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by thedacker
aznxturtlez wrote:
I play a 3 player game as well. Usually it ends up with us using around 5-6/66 cards.
This is exactly what frustrated me about the base rules. I want more cards in play than that for sure. Seeing similar cards from game to game is not a problem for me because it's the combination of the cards and order of their appearance that makes each game infinitely varied.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by ZomBub
Sphere wrote:
thedacker wrote:
After only a few games, nobody was keeping energy results in my groups.
I think you should play with other groups if you get the opportunity. I don't doubt that it worked that way for you, but groupthink is self-reinforcing. I'm far from convinced that acquiring energy and buying cards is a losing proposition.
I second that. We've had people try to go the dice-only route in our games, only to lose to someone due to their sweet cards.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Do cards get used much? It's over so fast...
by Sphere
thedacker wrote:
aznxturtlez wrote:
I play a 3 player game as well. Usually it ends up with us using around 5-6/66 cards.
This is exactly what frustrated me about the base rules. I want more cards in play than that for sure. Seeing similar cards from game to game is not a problem for me because it's the combination of the cards and order of their appearance that makes each game infinitely varied.
I think an average of 2-3 cards per player sounds about right for where we get with the standard rules. It's not unusual to see one player get 4-5 cards, but I think having everybody get that many on a regular basis would throw the game out of whack just as badly as the 2 VP per turn in Tokyo that the O.P. was using.
With the rules as written, all the various elements are in balance, and you adjust your play each game based on circumstances. I think that produces an interesting mix of strategy and tactics.
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