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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Point Collecting - boring but (too) strong strategy?

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by Mislav

stevelabny wrote:

Can you please explain what you are considering a "VP leader"? And how its happening?

Well, what happens is that very often someone emerges with let's say 5-6 point lead (or even more) and it just seems that the options of catching up with him are limited. These guys just win too often in the end. I know, luck is a big factor, but it seems that the point lead is simply very hard to overcome. What can you do about it?
Collecting points is obviously bad because you need to get really lucky with the numbers. Attacking is also inefficient for the various reasons: it usually reduces everyone's health but it rarely seems to be decisive against somebody who is in the lead and continues to simply collect the points and the occasional heart (when necessary). Energy also rarely helps, there simply are too many cards that nobody wants because they can't really change the course of the game. And 2 cubes to sweep off is usually too expensive, considering the very low likelihood of getting a strong card.
Obviously, this doesn't happen ALL the time, but it just seems to happen a bit too often.
My experiences are mostly from the 4-player games, from what I've seen (and read here), with 3 or 5 players attacks seem to be much more effective. It would be worthwhile to know the number of players the guys here mostly play with (especially those who claim that points rarely win in their games).

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by nate_lockhart

cardflopper wrote:

Say there are five players and p1 and p2 are in Tokyo city and tokyo bay respectively.

if damage is dealt to Tokyo and it kills player 1, the player count is now less than five. In this situation, will player 2 have to leave tokyo bay? or do they move to tokyo city?


Tokyo city.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by cardflopper

oh whoops forgot about the player doing the damage.

In the scenario I described, if player 3 dealt the killing blow to player1, then p3 would move into Tokyo city and p2 would remain in tokyo bay right?

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by nate_lockhart

cardflopper wrote:

oh whoops forgot about the player doing the damage.

In the scenario I described, if player 3 dealt the killing blow to player1, then p3 would move into Tokyo city and p2 would remain in tokyo bay right?

edit: durrr sorry this doesnt make any sense, ignore this response :blush:


I think it would go:

1. Tokyo player dies.
2. Tokyo Bay player moves to Tokyo and Tokyo Bay "closes"
3. Tokyo Bay player (who is now in Tokyo) can now elect to leave Tokyo because he was damaged.
- If he leaves, the attacking player takes Tokyo.
- If he stays, he is in Tokyo and the attacker stays outside Tokyo.

That is how I would rule it in any case.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Point Collecting - boring but (too) strong strategy?

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by Ryan Keane

Mislav wrote:

stevelabny wrote:

Can you please explain what you are considering a "VP leader"? And how its happening?

Well, what happens is that very often someone emerges with let's say 5-6 point lead (or even more) and it just seems that the options of catching up with him are limited. These guys just win too often in the end. I know, luck is a big factor, but it seems that the point lead is simply very hard to overcome. What can you do about it?
Collecting points is obviously bad because you need to get really lucky with the numbers. Attacking is also inefficient for the various reasons: it usually reduces everyone's health but it rarely seems to be decisive against somebody who is in the lead and continues to simply collect the points and the occasional heart (when necessary). Energy also rarely helps, there simply are too many cards that nobody wants because they can't really change the course of the game. And 2 cubes to sweep off is usually too expensive, considering the very low likelihood of getting a strong card.
Obviously, this doesn't happen ALL the time, but it just seems to happen a bit too often.
My experiences are mostly from the 4-player games, from what I've seen (and read here), with 3 or 5 players attacks seem to be much more effective. It would be worthwhile to know the number of players the guys here mostly play with (especially those who claim that points rarely win in their games).


I have mostly played 4 player as well, and my experiences described in the above post reflect this. With 5 or 6, I never try to stay in Tokyo. I try to go for points and feints into Tokyo. Ideal roll is 3/3/3/claw/heart or energy - usually the player in Tokyo retreats, so I net 4 points with a hit on them, and then I retreat with the first attack on me. Rinse and repeat. If the leader is in Tokyo, then I go for all claws (and hearts if I'm unlikely to survive a retreat).

I disagree that attacking is inefficient. Here's what I would do to try to push your groupthink away from Point Collecting:
The player in Tokyo should only be trying to roll claws, period. The other 2 players (who are now teaming up with the player in Tokyo to try to kill the Point Collector first before turning on each other) agree to try to avoid hitting you until you kill the point leader, so the player can survive in Tokyo. The Point Collector's occasional heart is unlikely to be able to keep up with the onslaught and the Tokyo player is consistently gaining 2 points every turn as well, probably not too far below the average the Point Collector is collecting each turn. And if the Point Collector rolls a claw and the Tokyo player retreats, forcing him into Tokyo, the next player should only try to roll claws.

Whew, this is probably the most strategic thought I've ever invested in this game. I usually just play like "Green cubes are pretty...""Ooh, I like that card." or "You just beat me at Love Letter, so I gonna bust you up Lobsterhead!" :p

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by a1bert

nate_lockhart wrote:


3. Tokyo Bay player (who is now in Tokyo) can now elect to leave Tokyo because he was damaged.

He can choose to leave if he was attacked. Just being damaged (through cards) is not enough.

King of Tokyo Organizer (Version 2) Now Available!

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by Greg Spence

After a long wait and much anticipation, the new version of our King of Tokyo organizer is finally here!



Not only does it support everything through the Halloween expansion but it simultaneously supports sleeved or unsleeved cards with the simple adjustment of a movable divider!

The character board space is deep enough to hold all current boards with room for a couple more. Tokens and energy cubes are now kept in a removable divider that you can take out and place on the table.



This organizer truly has it all and I want to thank Walter for his help with the design! The new KOT organizer is ready for delivery and can be ordered from our online store at http://www.thebrokentoken.com.



Thanks!
Greg

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: KoT Storage

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by gspence

Version 2 is here! It supports sleeved and unsleeved cards by adjusting a movable divider. It also has room for both expansions and space to spare. One of the coolest features of the divider is the removable tray that holds the energy cubes and tokens.

Check out more info in my blog post.
King of Tokyo Organizer Version 2

- Greg



Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by pillinjer

The rules say:

If a Monster is eliminated and that brings the number of Monsters below 5, Tokyo Bay can't be occupied anymore. The Monster in it must leave Tokyo.


So, If P1 is in tokyo, P2 in Tokyo Bay and p3 Attacks and kills P1 taking the total number of players under 5, then p3 enters Tokyo, and p2 leaves Tokyo.

You cant move from Tokyo Bay to Tokyo at any time in the game it seems.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by a1bert

pillinjer wrote:

The rules say:

This is more to the benefit of the case when a monster is killed outside of Tokyo. The player in Tokyo Bay must leave, although was not attacked (so can not yield using the normal rules).

It is not clear from the rules what happens when the monster in Tokyo being killed drops the number of players to 4, but we always play in a way that the monster in Tokyo Bay first moves to Tokyo and then, if it was an attack, can decide whether to yield. Depending on that the attacking player either stays outside (if Tokyo stays occupied) or moves to Tokyo (if it is vacant).

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by reemer

a1bert wrote:

pillinjer wrote:

The rules say:

This is more to the benefit of the case when a monster is killed outside of Tokyo. The player in Tokyo Bay must leave, although was not attacked (so can not yield using the normal rules).

It is not clear from the rules what happens when the monster in Tokyo being killed drops the number of players to 4, but we always play in a way that the monster in Tokyo Bay first moves to Tokyo and then, if it was an attack, can decide whether to yield. Depending on that the attacking player either stays outside (if Tokyo stays occupied) or moves to Tokyo (if it is vacant).


This is how I understand the rules and how we play as well.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Any info on King of New York yet?

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by raygathex

Since the original set came out with 6 monsters all inspired by Japanese (and two American) monsters i think what they should do is:

50s style cyclops robot
a monster entirely made of energy
a giant blob monster
Giant fishman/sharkman
giant killer plant
a giant cyborg half monster half machine
a quadrupedal monster like the Rhedosaurus.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Any info on King of New York yet?

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by raygathex

Granted i have other ideas too, like:

a giant Brain or Eye with tentacles
a city golem or even just a rock monster
a living statue of liberty is kinda cool but id rather destroy it. :)
a giant turtle
giant rats and giant sewer gators are both great ideas too.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by pillinjer

reemer wrote:

a1bert wrote:

pillinjer wrote:

The rules say:

This is more to the benefit of the case when a monster is killed outside of Tokyo. The player in Tokyo Bay must leave, although was not attacked (so can not yield using the normal rules).

It is not clear from the rules what happens when the monster in Tokyo being killed drops the number of players to 4, but we always play in a way that the monster in Tokyo Bay first moves to Tokyo and then, if it was an attack, can decide whether to yield. Depending on that the attacking player either stays outside (if Tokyo stays occupied) or moves to Tokyo (if it is vacant).


This is how I understand the rules and how we play as well.


I feel this situation is one a group should house rule before starting a game. Technically the rules say The monster in Tokyo Bay leaves but if your group agrees your variant then who cares. Have fun and play more games.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by seanmwest

pillinjer wrote:

I feel this situation is one a group should house rule before starting a game. Technically the rules say The monster in Tokyo Bay leaves but if your group agrees your variant then who cares. Have fun and play more games.

I agree with this.

Although it is arguable that it's not clear what should happen when the monster in Tokyo is killed, there is nothing in the rules that suggests the monster in Tokyo Bay should move to Tokyo. The quote above is the only mention of it and taken literally would result in: P1 dies, P3 enters Tokyo, P2 leaves Tokyo Bay.

But that said, if your group prefers to handle it differently, more power to you. It's a light game, meant to be quick and fun; not one to be rules-lawyered to death.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Any info on King of New York yet?

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by cornixt

I would have said a T-Rex for some Jurassic Park action, but it would be pretty similar to Gigazaur. Maybe an incredible Bulk? Or a robot that transforms between humanoid and vehicle? Or a robot made from five smaller robots that join together in the exact same sequence every game that takes two minutes of time.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Point Collecting - boring but (too) strong strategy?

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by nerman8r

Your experience with KoT seems somewhat unique. Perhaps it's a coincidence. Perhaps there is a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy, where you're playing into what you expect to happen. Perhaps you're seeing what you expect to see, and really it's not happening as often as you believe.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: Rules:: Re: does the player in tokyo bay give up their spot in this situation?

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by nerman8r

a1bert wrote:

It is not clear from the rules what happens when the monster in Tokyo being killed drops the number of players to 4, but we always play in a way that the monster in Tokyo Bay first moves to Tokyo and then, if it was an attack, can decide whether to yield.

I think it's clear. There's nothing in the rules that say that a monster in Tokyo Bay moves to Tokyo, ever.

That said, I play with a house rule that whenever a monster in Tokyo yields (or dies), the player in Tokyo Bay moves into Tokyo (unless they're yielding too). At this point if there are still 5 or more players, the attacking player moves into Tokyo Bay.

Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Any info on King of New York yet?

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