by abdiel
King of Tokyo is a brilliant game, but Iello's promotion methods are gimmicky and annoying. I ignore the company now.↧
Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by cornixt
I thought it was the character that the issue was with, not just the name - they could have renamed it pretty easily. And we don't know exactly what context the evolutions will be presented in Power Up, so they may be able to sidestep the actual issue in some way.It's way too early to get all agitated by this, especially since there were zero gameplay reasons for buying the new version and therefore feeling ripped-off.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by ras2124
jozxyqk wrote:
I was under the impression that the legal issues with Cyber Bunny were related to an upcoming digital version. So if they release a digital version of the base game, they can't use that character in an online game.
And they can't use that character's likeness on digital card-backs, either.
But if they print special cards in an expansion that have the appropriate card-backs, but references to these old characters on paper only, maybe that's OK.
IP law is weird.
And they can't use that character's likeness on digital card-backs, either.
But if they print special cards in an expansion that have the appropriate card-backs, but references to these old characters on paper only, maybe that's OK.
IP law is weird.
Maybe you are correct that it is something tied to the app, but if they can legally use the name, it seems they should be able to legally use the name, but I am no lawyer. If it was a simple issue like that though it seems they could say, we can't use the name in the app, but they seem to be avoiding a response all together.
On top of that was it seemed they were using the inclusion of the two old monsters an the reason for the missing KoNY powers, but then after I said how that benefited very few people, they clarified that the missing KoNY powers were due to that game not being available in all the places that KoT is (though as I pointed out, they have released KoNY content in KoT expansions before, even before KoNY existed anywhere).
Again, it is fully possible that there is some logical reasoning behind all of this, but the way they seem to avoid certain points and contradict previous statements really makes you wonder that they are actually doing.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by Magicovore
Like most publishers, we try do deliver the best possible games and we hate when our choices disappoint fans. Sometimes we make announcements too fast because we are excited about the games we are working on, and then we have to announce a change that won't please everyone. I assure you that we don't like it.About CyberBunny:
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
The Evolution cards of CyberBunny doesn't use the art nor the design of Cyber Bunny so we can reprint it (no legal issue here).
That's why we had to change the character for the new King of Tokyo version but we can still reprint the old evolution card design in the future KoT Power Up! game.
About the content of KoT Power Up!:
The initial plan was to have a mirror of KoNY Power Up! content. But, many players didn't have the opportunity to get the first KoT Power Up! (especially, many countries have only sold the first version of King of Tokyo and don't have the Power Up! yet).
Also, we couldn't simply add more content to have all Evolution in the game without raising its price.
The final content of the game was discussed a lot. We end up choosing to remove the Evolution cards to play in KoNY. This way, we publish a game that will be playable by owners of both the new and the old version of KoT.
I am pretty sure that we will find a way to distribute those Power-UP cards that allow players to play Gigazaur in New York with Evolutions someday. But I don't know when, and I don't know how. For now, we are focussing on the next Monster Packs and future King of games.
Thank you for your understanding.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by ras2124
Thank you for your response. However, it still is not clear why, when redoing all of the art, you didn't simply do a complete redesign of Cyber Bunny from the ground up instead of changing to Cyber Kitty.Even with the art change aside, the decision to swap the characters is causing lots of incompatibilities. For instance, it is still unknown if "character packs" will be released and if so when we will see them so the only way to get the new characters and powers currently is to rebuy a bunch of stuff (including what is now an almost entirely identical copy of Power Up just for 2 powers).
Not to mention there is the question of how long beyond Power Up, the old monsters will be supported (will they get KoNY powers?), especially since newer buyers have no way to get these monsters but are paying for their continued support.
Overall the handling of this situation seems to be poorly thought out and in the best interest of virtually none of your customers, old or new.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by chrisn96
The reason they did Cyber Bunny instead of completely redesigning the card is because that's what they wanted to do. It's none of our business why they had to change it or how they changed it. They had to change it and that's what they decided to do. Just because you want details doesn't matter and doesn't mean it was handled poorly. You just think you entitled to more information than you actually are.They rest of your questions will be answered in time when they decide what they are going to do and announce it.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by ras2124
chrisn96 wrote:
The reason they did Cyber Bunny instead of completely redesigning the card is because that's what they wanted to do. It's none of our business why they had to change it or how they changed it. They had to change it and that's what they decided to do. Just because you want details doesn't matter and doesn't mean it was handled poorly. You just think you entitled to more information than you actually are.
They rest of your questions will be answered in time when they decide what they are going to do and announce it.
They rest of your questions will be answered in time when they decide what they are going to do and announce it.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by grarrrg
ras2124 wrote:
However, the big kicker was the swapping of Cyber Bunny for Cyber Kitty and Kraken for Space Penguin. This switch meant that older edition owners would have unsupported characters going forward that would have to be proxied as the new ones if they wanted to use future content and didn't rebuy the game and 2nd edition of the Power Up expansion. Iello has always claimed that this change, while undesirable, was required due to legal issues regarding Cyber Bunny and that the could no longer use him.
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I am not saying they are necessarily trying to rip us off, but they have so far completely avoided responding to the issue despite responding to others, and that to me is worrying
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I am not saying they are necessarily trying to rip us off, but they have so far completely avoided responding to the issue despite responding to others, and that to me is worrying
Fun fact about lawsuits: you usually aren't allowed to discuss details of them with the public, nor would you want to at the risk of (further?) incriminating yourself.
They've said "Cannot use Cyber Bunny anymore", and that may be about as much as they are allowed to say.
Magicovore wrote:
About CyberBunny:
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
The Evolution cards of CyberBunny doesn't use the art nor the design of Cyber Bunny so we can reprint it (no legal issue here).
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
The Evolution cards of CyberBunny doesn't use the art nor the design of Cyber Bunny so we can reprint it (no legal issue here).
ras2124 wrote:
Thank you for your response. However, it still is not clear why, when redoing all of the art, you didn't simply do a complete redesign of Cyber Bunny from the ground up instead of changing to Cyber Kitty.
It's likely there are limited exemptions in place (from the legal issue).
For starters, while they cannot -make- more Cyber Bunny anything, they are not required to 'recall' anything already produced.
It's possible that a "non-art name-only reprint of existing product" is allowed.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by ras2124
grarrrg wrote:
Magicovore wrote:
About CyberBunny:
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
The Evolution cards of CyberBunny doesn't use the art nor the design of Cyber Bunny so we can reprint it (no legal issue here).
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
The Evolution cards of CyberBunny doesn't use the art nor the design of Cyber Bunny so we can reprint it (no legal issue here).
ras2124 wrote:
Thank you for your response. However, it still is not clear why, when redoing all of the art, you didn't simply do a complete redesign of Cyber Bunny from the ground up instead of changing to Cyber Kitty.
It's likely there are limited exemptions in place (from the legal issue).
For starters, while they cannot -make- more Cyber Bunny anything, they are not required to 'recall' anything already produced.
It's possible that a "non-art name-only reprint of existing product" is allowed.
The second case is possible, but it still seems that since they redid all of the monster art, that a recomplete revamp of Cyber Bunny would be possible. As they stated above, the issue was with the art, not the name, so a completely unrelated design seems like it should be within their legal capabilities.
Maybe you are right though and it is just not possible. The whole thing has been extremely annoying though, and will likely be the end of the line for KoT for me. I went through this with Pandemic as I refuse to rebuy the game and expansion just to play the new content.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by grarrrg
ras2124 wrote:
Well we know it is not the first case. The lawsuit issues have been going on since before summer and at that time, the plan was to release the new Power Up with only the new monsters and KoNY powers for them. The current plan to release the old monsters instead of KoNY was just recently decided and announced, and presumably is currently in production as it is slated for a release some time in 2017 so even at this point, there is nothing to recall.
The recall comment was referring to existing 1st Edition Kot (and related 1st Ed expansions) that were already printed at time of lawsuit.
ras2124 wrote:
The second case is possible, but it still seems that since they redid all of the monster art, that a recomplete revamp of Cyber Bunny would be possible. As they stated above, the issue was with the art, not the name, so a completely unrelated design seems like it should be within their legal capabilities.
Re-quoted with emphasis added:
Magicovore wrote:
About CyberBunny:
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
We can't use CyberBunny's art/visual design for legal issue, which implies that we can't reprint the old cardback (with the bunny on it) or any version of CyberBunny.
Presumably any and all illustrations that depict a rabbit with technological parts involved is the issue.
If the legal issue was with, say, The King, they would have plenty of room to (re)design just about anything to go with the name, but with a name like "Cyber Bunny", your options become quite limited.
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by Mattintheweb
Ouch, that hurts… :(We tried to be as straightforward as possible, so being called (or even suspected of being) liars is quite hurtful… Well, I'll get over it, but let me make something really clear (again): I can understand some players being annoyed by the new version, but we've done all we could to make it as smooth as possible for our fans. Actually, it should not impact most of you! I mean, do you really think we want to mess with you? :what:
And how is the new version a "cash grab"? If you have the first version of the game, everything (but future promo cards) is still compatible with your game. And we're even making this new Power Up expansion compatible for those who didn't get the first version of the expansion yet! How would it make any sense if our goal was to have you buy the new version of the game? :shake:
About the Cyber Bunny legal issues: this is complicated, and as some stated before, whatever we disclose (even here) could be used against us somehow. Sometimes just acknowledging an issue can make it even more real. In my opinion, we already went too much into the details of it by trying to explain it to you guys (but as I wrote before, it's important for us to be as open as possible with you). I'll glad to answer any questions you may have about the game (for example about Monster Packs: Cthulhu is coming soon, and we hope to release 2 or 3 new monsters a year from now on ;)).
I hope everyone understands (and believes!) that even though we're still a small team who can make mistakes (like with our early announcement of KoNY cards being included in the new Power Up), we're really trying to do our best here. We have nothing to gain in messing with our fans and we know it. :)
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
Some folks are just desperate to see skullduggery all over the place.
Those folks should stick to playing Lords of Waterdeep. ;)
Those folks should stick to playing Lords of Waterdeep. ;)
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
Hold on a minute.... Monster Pack: Cthulhu? AAAAHHHHHHHHHHH #MUSTBUY :goo:
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: An insert fitting both Tokyo, New York and the power ups?
by erwanl
Thank you!I'll probably end up making my own with foam core, but it's good to know it's possible :)
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New Video for King of Tokyo
by Sjeng
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New Video for King of Tokyo
by nunovix
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by Chetil
I really wish that they had stuck with the original plan of releasing Power Up cards for both Tokyo and NY. That was one of the best things with the previous expansion – that you could take the monsters from NY and bring them to Tokyo. I know that there were some complaining here about Iello giving away free stuff (since it cost the same as the first Power Ups expansions, even though it came with twice as much content), but I do hope they find a way to release Power Ups for bringing the Tokyo monster to NY later.But we all seem to be missing the Good News in all of this:
Magicovore wrote:
For now, we are focussing on the next Monster Packs and future King of games.
More King of games? That's really interesting. Can you tell anything more about this?
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by nerman8r
Mattintheweb wrote:
Ouch, that hurts… :(
I'm sorry you had to deal with all this. Lawsuits have to be extremely painful for game companies, even the larger ones.
Keep up the good work!
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by ras2124
nerman8r wrote:
Mattintheweb wrote:
Ouch, that hurts… :(
I'm sorry you had to deal with all this. Lawsuits have to be extremely painful for game companies, even the larger ones.
Keep up the good work!
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Reply: King of Tokyo:: General:: Re: Cyber Bunny/Cyber Kitty Story a Lie?
by nerman8r
ras2124 wrote:
The reply cleared up a lot so I am satisfied as well. It also took 6 months and this thread to get it. Some may not agree that we were owed it, but as a fan purchasing the game, I disagree.
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