by bandit_boy7
Well let's take this 1 point at a time...nerman8r wrote:
bandit_boy7 wrote:
I agree with Josh (not that playing in Winnipeg with cheaper cards wouldn't also be fun). There are "rocks" in the deck to force strategic choice.
I think that rolling for energy is already a somewhat weak strategy, so having "rocks" available actually removes the fun of having a meaningful choice. There are sometimes three cards that nobody wants, so they stop rolling for energy, and that makes for a less diverse, and more boring game.
Typically I play an aggressive strategy in whatever I play. I love ruffling feathers and throwing off the conservative players' plans. So for me KoT initially was a slug-fest. I considered Energy-rolling a waste of my dice too. But then I would die, then die, then die... Even if I lost I wanted to at least be in the whole game. (Apparently the damage done to my gaming psyche by Risk during my formative years has helped develop that urge.) At first it was easy to feel like I was getting screwed by the dice rolling, but I began to see I was doing it to myself. This is a press-your-luck game and I was ignoring that, to my detriment, then blaming the game. I have shifted to a more balanced approach--hedging my bets by rolling for points 2 or 3 times in a game. Also, I take energy almost whenever I can. So many cards in the 4-7 price range can be game changers (or at least keep you in the game). When one of those cards comes up, or I see a way to grab a lot of points, or someone at the table is teetering around 1 or 2 hearts, I SNAP into action! It's easy to leave the points and go for the kill, or just stay alive and outpace the rest of the Monsters in points. Either way I find the "energy strategy" to be both invaluable & viable.
At the convention over Labor Day weekend I competed in 2 KoT tournaments. I scored 2nd overall in the 1st, and made it to the final table (of 6) in the 2nd. All my wins were from points+energy. Odd for an aggressive player, I think. But it proves viability, in my mind at least. One note on this: when there are cards nobody wants and when there are cards everybody wants I tend to pay 2E (or egg someone else on) to wipe them. That keeps it interesting.
nerman8r wrote:
"Convenience Store" is a discard card worth 1 VP that costs three to buy, and I'm saying that rolling three lightning bolts to get that is a waste, in the same way that I would rarely want to roll 111 just to get one VP.
I see now that you are talking about "Corner Store". I made a mistake. I almost agree with your assessment, except that sometimes you just roll a bunch of energy and that may give you the opportunity to buy 2 cards in 1 turn? There are some applications for this--especially where you'd like to roll points and you get E instead.
nerman8r wrote:
Lazy did also say that Complete Destruction led to too many victories, and was probably underpriced.
Yeah but it's a difficult/unlikely chain of events that turns that card into a win:
1) You have to actually roll & hoard the energy, and resist the temptation to spend it on anything useful.
2) The card has to come up. We average about 15 cards per game out of a deck of 60?
3) The card has to come up after you have the energy sitting there.
4) Nobody else at the table can want it or wipe it.
5) Finally you have to spontaneously roll (or have the means to re-roll/change) the dice in the 1-6 configuration. Which if you fall short by even 1 die is a pretty lame duck roll, so you'd fall behind.
If this card didn't garner somebody the win once in a while, I'd say it was a crap card, remove it. As it stands, it kinda rewards random dice rolling. That's KoT for you! Which brings me to my next point...
nerman8r wrote:
bandit_boy7 wrote:
Apparently you & Lazy dislike drama in a game--the contrast created by highs and lows--but rather prefer variations on parity with the dice rolls determining the winner. Personally I'd much rather be defeated by a card (which feels like strategy) than a bunch of uncontrollable dice, but to each their own.
I don't know what to say to this. If I disliked drama in a game, I wouldn't play King of Tokyo. The fact that you can be sitting pretty at 6 life and get killed before your next turn is dramatic. It's unfair, and it's hilarious and fun.
I absolutely loved your response to this. I could picture your expression (and I don't even know you.) Sorry to provoke you with my words. I could have worded them less directed at you and more as a general statement. I felt (and still feel) like a move to take away really dramatic cards from the game makes it less dramatic. I incorrectly assumed this was your intent.
nerman8r wrote:
bandit_boy7 wrote:
I guess people develop a bad taste in their mouth when they get unexpectedly beaten by a card--usually the first thing they seek to do afterward is to try to "re-balance" the game so that it never happens to them again. Essentially they are saying (IMO), "No more winning for you!" instead of digging into the game as is and trying to find a way to beat people fair & square.
I don't understand why somebody who doesn't like using variants would come into my variant forum and tell me there's something wrong with me.
Apparently, I misread the situation. Also, I never said I disliked variants. I love experimentation with a game. My mind thinks like an editor. But in my experience with "house ruling", 9 times out of 10 the person is new to the game or disliking it based on a loss, and they are seeking to change the game rather than really learn to play it well. (I spend a lot of time on the Rattus forums and the Small World forums--it happens all the time there.) I felt like that's where all of this was coming from, and I have sympathy for where they are at. But in my opinion, there's a valuable difference between adding something to a game and taking something away from it. It's not that there's something wrong with people like that, they just need to be challenged to think outside the box. Sometimes group think takes over and they don't realize it, especially if they come here and run into other people who are in the same dissatisfied boat. If that's not you, then great, sounds like you're on the right track. Your "Winnipeg Variant" sounds more like a re-theme in that case, and should be a lot of fun. Good luck to you! When you get it all done, you should enter it in the monthly "Best Pimped Boardgame" Contest, run by: [user=helgerehwald][/user]
TAYQ: The only card I think is "overpriced" is the one you buy for 8E and redeem for 9E. It's more that I just can't figure out where that would be really worthwhile.