RogueLieutenant wrote:
sixthecat wrote:
kdiddy13 wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
You can't use heart results to heal yourself while in Tokyo. You can use them for any other reason.
Hmm. The English language rulebook says:
The Monster in Tokyo cannot use the (heart) result on the dice (but can heal using cards).
Which makes it sound like you can't use hearts for anything. I wonder if different rulebooks got translated differently?
Interesting. I have to go check that myself now. It would make sense that you need to leave Tokyo to recuperate.
Another question: Can you use hearts on cards that would heal you to fix a shrink ray wound?
I read it that you just can't use the hearts to heal. The other means for getting rid of shrink ray and poison or using cards to heal sound like good play to me.
I think the same, but this FAQ says that you can't remove your counters either. :\ Though you can use your hearts to heal others if you have healing ray.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/743476/faq-in-english-answer...
or did I read something wrong.
Hahaha! How…unfortunate… Here we go again, round three?
I read those links, and the links from the links, and it’s a bit of a mess. First, folks in the links and the quotes above are arguing over the rule, but using the incorrect quote of the rule. Did it change in the English version at some time? I’m not sure. Then in the link with the translation, the translation is horrible. It essentially it says you can't use the hearts to heal, then by some strange translation problem infers that you can't remove shrink ray, a non sequitur as written… Then I read over the French version and it appears Gabrielle de Iello answered the question by saying hearts can’t be used to remove the shrink ray! Also Richard Garfield also seemed to indicate that as well in his quote below, although he considered it a bit complex to allow it to work for some things and not the other. So we are back to hearts not working on shrink ray based on how _they_ play it, or you can examine the rules and see if they disagree. You can stop reading now if you want to just play the way the designers play it… Or…
Let’s review the rules: Quotes
"The Monster in Tokyo cannot use the heart result on the dice to heal (but can heal using cards)"
and
Definition of Heal, "Each heart allows a Monster to heal one lost Life."
Combining them therefore yields this: The Monster in Tokyo cannot use the heart result on the dice to heal one lost Life (but can heal using cards).
That is the rule. Now if the creators and translators of the game meant/played it differently, then the rule was written wrong. As I understand the French version it is the same! Yet, it seems that Iello and Richard play differently and consider using the heart to remove the shrink as a form of heal.. Richard Garfield's said he hadn't really thought about it before but didn't allow the hearts to be used for other things. I quote, "I was just going over an FAQ that raised this issue – I wasn’t aware of it. I have always played the heart couldn’t be used for healing, or getting rid of bad counters but in the rare case where it is useful outside of healing it can be used (Complete Destruction). This seems more complex than just having it be that the heart is a ‘blank’ face in Tokyo, and the FAQ/next edition may move in that direction. This is an important issue for the expansion, since you will reveal monster evolutions when you roll 3+ hearts."
But playing it as blank face is worse; it eliminates even more options and cards. Most things wouldn’t work unless expressly written as such. Healing Ray, Complete Destruction, none would work. Evolution with 3+ hearts would because it is expressly written as such in the expansion. Presumably, they wanted it to be clear that it worked in Tokyo because the previous rules with hearts in Tokyo were not clear.
If Richard is looking for a straightforward rule, he just needs to play it as written. The Monster in Tokyo cannot use the heart result on the dice to heal one lost Life (but can heal using cards). An updated form of the rule could say,
"The Monster in Tokyo cannot use the result on the dice to HEAL SELF(but can heal using cards), BUT MAY USE THE HEARTS FOR OTHER OPTIONS." But, I guess that was not their intent? They wrote clear rules which directly conflicted with how they play the game? Again, it’s just a game, and if there are small rules irregularities, I’ll get over it…
I guess in summary, I think a lot of the original discussion and argument over the rule occurred while not quoting what the rule actually said in English or in French--unless the rules changed in printings?--if they did, they actually made the situation worse. Secondarily, when looking at both English and French versions, I think the rule is clear and consistent, but apparently Richard and the French Creator don’t play that way. Shrug… The rule states the hearts cannot be used to heal while in Tokyo and by definition that means to heal back one life per heart, that's it… Saying it can’t be used to remove shrink or poison expands what the definition of heal is. That isn’t healing per the rules. I hate being a rules lawyer, but I guess there is a first time for everything…
Finally, it's just a game, and a really fun one at that. I don't expect the rules to be perfect and I'll keep playing however I want as will you all... But I will say, keeping it open to other uses apart from the direct healing of the King, adds more fun and options (and will provide room for growth in expansions) and is also more internally consistent. So you can either follow the rules as written in French or English or follow how the creator plays the game. Both seem to be correct given a perspective. Happily, both ways are likely to be fun. Slightly different, but still fun.
YMMV! - but my way is funner ;-)